I’ve talked almost endlessly about my state of mind – a Non-Dual State which is always there, but not always expressed. The other part of the mind that is expressed is me. Vern. Myself. I. Ego.
Having 2 states like this I can live life normally. Whatever that is.
Could someone even survive having only a Non-Dual State of mind?
Without external or pre-planned resources and people who would take care of you, no. It seems impossible.
In the ND State one isn’t capable of any sort of high-level or extended or involved thought at all.
The self isn’t present in the ND State. Wants and needs, emotion, ambition, and tasks requiring thinking or doing of something complicated just aren’t possible.
Assuming one has to do something to make money to afford a place to stay and for food to sustain her, how could the person accomplish this in the state. The person could not.
Could someone make videos for YouTube, be interviewed by someone else, or accomplish literally anything a state of mind that only includes Non-Dual Awareness?
No. SImply said, absolutely not.
Who are some people who are claiming a permanent non-dual state in which the self (ego) never came back?
I’m interested in this question because there seems to be many people faking something or making something out of nothing. I’m interested in looking at the following people and I’ll add the information here as I do the research. I’ll make this page live anyway, and just update it with time.
I think it’s likely that very few on this list said anything ridiculous like their self/ego never came back after their awakening experience. It just wouldn’t make sense that they continue to be in the public eye and DOING THINGS that require ego. Curious to find out. I think most people here have been misquoted or didn’t give enough context for what they’re saying for anyone to come to the conclusion that they just dropped the ego and it never returned.
- Eckert Tolle
- Adyashanti
- The great western vehicle?!!
- osho
- Buddha?
- Ken Weber
- Aya Kema
- Ajan Chah
- Henepola Gunaratana
- Maharshi
- Nisargadatta
- Eckart Tolle
- Daniel Ingram
- Shinzen Young
27 People Who Claimed Loss of Self/Ego
1. Ramana Maharshi
- “In that state the ‘I’ or ego is completely absent, and pure awareness alone remains.”
2. Nisargadatta Maharaj
- “There is no such thing as an individual. You were never born and never die.”
Ridiculous. He’s just redefining the self/ego/me/i.
3. Eckhart Tolle
- “I could no longer relate to this ‘I’ anymore. It just disappeared. What was left was a vast silence.”
Yeah? Nah. The ‘i’ he calls this one may have disappeared for an instant. His i is still there in every video, book, interview, and social interaction he ever had since that instant.
4. Jiddu Krishnamurti
- Report during his “process” – “The mind and heart have ceased to exist.”
Like Eckhart and everyone else, the self returned. A temporary loss of it is possible, even somewhat common as many people who have just meditated on the breath can tell you.
5. U.G. Krishnamurti
- “There is no self to realize. What is left is a body functioning without a center.”
I love UG, however, he appears disillusioned as to what happened. For a brief time he had an extended non-self experience during what he termed “The Calamity.” Afterward, he went on to say that every cell of his body was affected – as if somehow he could know that. He went on and on about this physical process that occurred. He continued to say for decades that there no self inside. If you watch him, you’ll see he’s a well-defined personality. His ego is thriving. Was.
6. Shunryu Suzuki (Zen master)
- “Nothing we see or hear is perfect. But right there in the imperfection is perfect reality. No self, no problem.”
Seems as if he’s talking about a temporary state or momentary awareness of it. Makes sense.
7. Huang Po (Zen master)
- “This way is no-self. The moment a thought arises, you fall into dualism.”
I can’t see the possibility of someone learning to be no-self. Agree, the moment thought is possible, you’re back into a dualistic state of mind.
8. Bankei Yōtaku (Zen master)
- “In the Unborn there is no self that suffers.”
Yes, of course. Brilliant. In rocks too. Probably.
9. Bernadette Roberts (Christian contemplative)
- “The self fell away. It was not there anymore. There was no one left to pray.” (The Experience of No-Self)
This happens to many people in all kinds of traditions with all kinds of beliefs and practices. It’s always temporary, or shared with a self.
10. Thomas Merton
- In journals – “The self is abolished. I vanish into what is always there.”
Not sure if he was talking about temporary or not. Will look. I do like that he says it is ‘always there.’ The non-dual state is possibly in every person, just able to express itself when the ego fades and finally disappears – temporarily.
11. Meister Eckhart (Christian mystic)
- “The eye with which I see God is the same eye with which God sees me.” (a radical non-dual statement dissolving selfhood)
Christians often speak in absolutes as if they have a monopoly on the truth.
12. St. Teresa of Ávila
- In ecstasy – “The soul seems no longer to exist. All is God.”
Jhana 1 similarity between born again experience where god is given the credit in a Christian context.
13. Neem Karoli Baba (Maharaj-ji)
- Ram Dass on him: “He was nobody. There was no one there. Just love.”
I’ll look him up. I’m sure he was there shortly after this experience. lol.
14. Mooji
- “When the sense of ‘I’ disappears, you are the infinite Self. The personal is gone.”
Yes, makes sense. Says nothing about permanency or exclusivity of ND State.
15. Adyashanti
- “The disappearance of the separate self is not a state — it’s reality shining unobscured.”
So he is redefining state. Uhh, sure, it’s not a state. I really take issue with people who speak like they are the authority on something. Here’s this guy saying when ego is gone from the personality, the person, that’s not a state of mind. Who is this guy that he decides what a state of mind is and isn’t. Ha! It’s funny and yet tragic because not only does he believe it, but his groupies will start arguing the same thing based on this statement as absolute truth! It’s a really crazy space, this whole thing.
Also… Interesting point of view that MANY have in the entire space. People love to say something outlandish like the true reality is this – the emptiness of self, the absence of self and ego-filled person. There is another reality – the ego filled self also experiences reality. It is his own reality, unshared with the world. So too is this ego-less reality – unshared with the world. There doesn’t seem to be any unbiased reality at all. The only reality you can possibly know is the one you experience at the present moment.
16. Daniel Ingram (contemporary Buddhist teacher)
- “There is no separate observer, no separate self, no subject, no agent, no doer.”
Not sure he means permanently – will research.
17. Douglas Harding (author of On Having No Head)
- “I had no head. It was gone. What was left was boundless awareness.”
Not sure of the context. I have had mirror meditation where my head has disappeared. It was certainly a result of having read a book in the years prior in which some monk was talking about the head not really being on our body.
18. Alan Watts
- “You are an aperture through which the universe is looking at itself. There’s no separate ‘you’.”
The first sentence – ok. The second, no. There’s obviously a separate you that you believe in and everyone around you also believes in. That makes it true enough.
19. Dōgen Zenji
- “To study the self is to forget the self. To forget the self is to be enlightened by all things.”
20. Ajahn Mun Bhuridatta (Thai forest master)
- Biographers: “He uprooted the conceit ‘I am’. No sense of self remained.”
Temporary?
21. Ajahn Chah
- “If you let go of self, you let go of suffering. Then there’s nobody left to suffer.”
Agreed. There is a process or path that leads to having the possibility of letting go of self. And, it isn’t even seen as letting go of self, it’s just letting go of everything within consciousness as one either focuses on some object of meditation like feeling of breath, or just sitting and letting go of everything that arises.
In the Non-Dual State, there is zero suffering.
22. Shinzen Young (modern meditation teacher)
- “When self falls away, what’s left is just the flow of experience with no center.”
Odd statement. There is nothing to be ‘experienced’ then by anything. Poor choice of words. Maybe replace ‘experience’ with phenomena.
23. David Hawkins (psychiatrist, author of Power vs Force)
- “There is no personal self. There never was. All is consciousness.”
A silly statement. The belief in a self by billions is all we need to know there is a self. It’s a constructed self, sure, but there is very obviously this thing called self.
24. Ramesh Balsekar (Advaita teacher)
- “The ego is merely a concept. When realization dawns, there is no one to claim anything.”
Not sure if he means ‘realization’ is a permanent or temporary thing. That makes all the difference.
25. Papaji (H.W.L. Poonja)
- “The self you think you are has never existed. Only the Self remains.”
Sure. Welcome to the world of if I can say something so bizarre and circular that nobody can figure it out, then I win.
26. Francis Lucille (Advaita teacher)
- “The person is a fiction. In truth, the one who believed in it is gone.”
Just wrong and confusing. Therefore pointless. Some peole just say things to get reaction. He doesn’t even know what he said.
27. Byron Katie
- After awakening – “There is no me. There is only reality, and when I argue with it, I lose — but only 100% of the time.”
Sure. Another brilliant one.
Wrap-up
These 30 cover Buddhism, Zen, Advaita, Christianity, modern Western teachers, and New Age authors. All either said outright “self is gone,” or had students who testified to their egolessness. The common thread is that the center of identity — the “I/me/mine” sense — dropped away completely.