There are really few people who seem to have the state of mind that I have stumbled into. U. G. Krishnamurti is one person who undoubtedly has near exactly (as far as I can tell) the same state that is here.
It was at the age of 49 when UG Krishnamurti realized it was the search itself over his lifetime that was the problem. The search for enlightenment and to even define what enlightenment is. He was obsessed by it throughout his life. After what he calls and describes vividly as a physical transformation in which he believes even the cells of his body were replaced, he came into what he calls the ‘Natural State.’
Watching some of his videos this morning to see if I could find bits where he talks about his state of mind, I found this:
In the video, the narrator says, “In one of his books, UG describes the natural state in the following way…”
UG: “This state is a state of not knowing. You really don’t know what you are looking at. I may look at the clock on the wall for half an hour. Still, I do not read the time. I do not know it is a clock. All there is inside is wonderment.
“What is this that I am looking at?
“Not that the question actually phrases itself like that in words.
“The whole of my being is like a single big question mark.
“It is a state of wonder. Of wondering. Because I just do not know what I am looking at.
“The knowledge about it, all that I have learned, is held in the background. Unless there is a demand.
“If you ask the time, I will say, ‘it’s a quarter past three.’ Or whatever. It comes quickly, like an arrow.
“Then I am back in the state of not knowing. Of wonder.”
Vern: In this short statement you can see that his Natural State seems to be the same as what I’ve been calling the Non-Dual State. But at least from this, there seems to be some difference in how we are experiencing it. For UG, he says that when there is a demand, the mind works to answer – as in telling the time to someone who asks.
In his case, he says that he returns right back to the Natural State of wonder.
With what I am experiencing, I have some measure of my ego and self which are instantly available to answer demands when in that Natural State, but beyond that, I also have the ability to be self-directed, ambitious, emotional, and anything else a person could ‘be’ as a human being.
UG doesn’t mention that he can be himself and self-directed. He seems to repeat that he is just a responder to other’s demands. He doesn’t have any ambition of his own.
However, in the video, around 5:22 he says if the people questioning him would just leave, he would go and turn on the TV and entertain himself.
Which suggests, he is also quite capable of being his ego-filled self and acting as that for as long as he wants before slipping back into the Natural State.
Around 5:38 he gets obviously angry. His ego is still there. He is still UG. It seems that his state and mine ARE the same or very similar. I can engage in conversations and also get angry like I used to at any time in my past life. The Natural State is not prominent all the time, though it is there and available at any time if I just choose to let go of Vern.
If you watch to the end of the video, UG is relentless with the older guy who cannot understand what UG is saying. UG is telling him that there is no way to come to the truth because he is asking the question. The question comes from the ego, the self, and cannot be separated from it. The ego, if it gets an answer, will continue as the ego, as the self, as the I, as the me.
UG tells him that even until death, the questions will persist.
UG never gives up the answer that would help people understand better what he’s saying.
He says ‘death’ which people take as ‘physical’ death. He means figurative death. Death of the ego. Of the self. Of the I. If the me.
Obviously, UG reached this state by some process. This process can also happen for anyone else in the same way as UG or in the same way I reached it through the Jhanas and through questioning.
UG never really says that though. He never gives people an answer. I don’t know why that is. I think maybe he wants them to come to their own realization that the ego and self is just a construct. it too can die. It can get completely out of the way and let the Natural State be revealed.
With the elderly man, he tells him Nature wants your body. To recycle. That is it.
Which, in the Natural State, makes perfect sense. There is no idea about anything important in words, in personality, in things done or aspired to do. There is nothing important about mankind over anything else here on earth. It is all of the same stuff. With no known meaning other than just what it is in the state.
Krishnamurti’s Change to the Natural State
UG had a heck of an eventful change into the Natural State. It took months. He had what seems to match some of the Hindu experiences a bit. He had extreme head pain and body pain that lasted for a very long time. A friend suggested he do yoga and diet at the time and he feels like this had a positive effect.
He had various states of mind like mine where I was completely confused what I was looking at and who I was looking at. I remember not knowing I was in my own home. I remember holding my phone and looking at it like it was from another planet.
UG’s experience went on so much longer than my own.
My change was subtle. It happened over 1-2 weeks maybe. It was some time after that I came to grips with the change that I seemed to be operating under – this Non-dual state alongside my ego state. I could switch into either at any time. I remember some long headaches, but that is all as far as physical issues or pain. Mine was almost entirely within the mind. Is that because I wasn’t Hindu and didn’t learn about Kundalini awakening and other processes that Hindus believe?
UG’s mental experience seems somewhat different in this regard. His Non-Dual or Natural State lasted for days at a time it seems like. It’s hard to tell from the writings about it and the video he has on YouTube.
I found this amazing video where he talks about it in greath depth – deeper than I’ve ever heard him talk about it! So glad to find this video, it’s a national treasure!