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Turiya, Turiyatita, Brahman and Buddhist Enlightenment

ByVern

I read an email from a woman this morning who said she was so happy to find my writings here at Jhana8 because she found the word Turiya as a Sanskrit word that meant fourth consciousness.

I have very little knowledge about Advaita vedanta, but I did a couple of searches about it. Other words in the same space came up too. I’ll briefly talk about them below.

Turiya is the “fourth” state of consciousness in Advaita Vedanta — beyond waking (jagrat), dreaming (svapna), and deep sleep (sushupti).

It’s not really a state you enter and leave, but it’s the ever-present reality underlying all three states. Pure, undivided awareness itself. It is what you actually are, as opposed to what you experience.

Key points:

  • The three ordinary states come and go; Turiya doesn’t. It’s the unchanging background they appear in.
  • It’s identified with Brahman / pure Consciousness (Chit).
  • It’s not blankness or unconsciousness — it’s awareness without an object.
  • Mandukya Upanishad is the primary source, mapping the syllable AUM (A-U-M + silence) to the four states.

Some teachers also speak of Turiyatita (“beyond the fourth”) — a perspective in which the distinction between Turiya and the three states is let go of and non-dual awareness is understood to be one’s natural condition (true state).

These things are interesting because though I went through the Deep Jhanas, which Buddhists talk about, my end state is more like the awareness of Turiya – a non-dual state that is always there, and that Vern exists alongside.

Many people have asked me about the possibility of my being ‘enlightened’ in the classic Buddhist sense. No, it seems much less like that and much more like a Turiya awareness/non-dual awareness.

I asked AI what the features are of Buddhist enlightenment from early records. It gave a list. I’ll put a score of up to 10 on each one so you can see I’m nowhere near completely enlightened if going by Buddhist ideas. Actually, I’ll put 2 scores. The first is looking at the Vern State. The second will be the Non-Dual State.

Qualities of Buddhist Enlightenment

  • Fully awakened – completely awakened to reality. 0/10 Vern | 10/10 Non-Dual State (maybe)
  • Taints destroyed – the defilements are ended. 4/10 Vern | 10/10 Non-Dual State
  • Free from greed – no lust, craving, or possessive hunger drives the mind. 8/10 Vern | 10/10 NDS
  • Free from hatred – no ill will, aversion, or hostility remains. 5/10 Vern | 10/10 NDS
  • Free from delusion – ignorance and confusion about reality are ended. 9/10 Vern | 10/10 NDS
  • Mind liberated – liberation of mind is accomplished. Unsure – Vern/NDS
  • Liberated through wisdom – liberation is not just calm, but grounded in direct understanding. Unsure.
  • Released through non-clinging – nothing is grasped at as “mine,” “me,” or “my self.” 8/10 Vern | 10/10 NDS
  • No more rebirth – the causes of future becoming are ended. [Unsure]
  • Birth destroyed – the formula says “birth is destroyed.” [Unsure]
  • Holy life fulfilled – the training is completed, not still in progress. [Seems to be]
  • No further state of becoming – there is no return to cyclic existence. [Unsure]
  • Trouble-free – inward affliction is ended. 9/10 Vern | 10/10 NDS
  • Sorrowless – no existential suffering in the old sense remains. 10/10 Vern | 10/10 NDS
  • Stainless – defilements no longer stain the mind. 5/10 Vern | 10/10 NDS
  • Secure – no fear about existence, death, or loss of self remains. 10/10 Vern | 10/10 NDS
  • Peace attained – nirvana is described as perfect peace and freedom from fear. 8/10 Vern | 10/10 NDS
  • Unattached to the world – not bound to the world through craving or identification. 9/10 Vern | 10/10 NDS
  • Doubts destroyed – deep existential uncertainty is gone. 10/10 Vern | 10/10 NDS
  • Bonds ended – the Buddha is described as freed from every bond. 10/10 Vern | 10/10 NDS
  • Attachments not gathered – no new attachment is built up. 9/10 Vern | 10/10 NDS
  • Dispassionate – craving has cooled; the mind no longer lunges after experience. 9/10 Vern | 10/10 NDS
  • Fearless – the Buddha is described as abiding in safety, fearlessness, and intrepidity. 9/10 Vern | 10/10 NDS
  • Intrepid in teaching – he can declare his awakening and teaching without hesitation. 10/10 Vern | 10/10 NDS
  • Unassailable in realization – no one can rightly accuse him of false awakening or undeleted taints. [Unsure]
  • Knower of the world – one of the standard epithets of the Buddha. [Unsure]
  • Perfect in knowledge and conduct – standard canonical description of the Buddha. [No, and unsure]
  • Teacher of gods and humans – he teaches across all levels of beings in the Buddhist cosmology. [Unsure]
  • Discoverer of the path – a Buddha rediscovers and opens the path when it has been lost to the world. [Unsure, but could possibly be something like this.]
  • Turner of the wheel of Dhamma – he sets the liberating teaching in motion for others. [Trying]
  • Compassion expressed through teaching – the result of enlightenment is not just private peace, but active teaching for the welfare of beings. 10/10 Vern | 0/10 NDS – there is no teaching in the state.
  • Great clarity – knowledge and vision are complete rather than partial. This is a reasonable summary of the canonical formulas on liberation and perfect awakening. [Unsure]
  • Direct knowledge – realization is personally known and realized, not believed on faith. 10/10 Vern | 10/10 NDS
  • Calmed – the Buddha is repeatedly portrayed as fully calmed. 8/10 Vern | 10/10 NDS
  • No inner contradiction – conduct, knowledge, and realization are aligned. 7/10 Vern | 10/10 NDS
  • End of existential suffering – the whole path is said to lead to the complete destruction of suffering. [Unsure]
  • Nirvana with remainder during life – after enlightenment, the Buddha still lived on physically, but with the causes of rebirth ended. [Unsure]
  • Final nirvana at death – after the breakup of the body, no further rebirth occurs. [Unsure]

Qualities of Turiya/Turiyatita

Here, I’ll just comment whether the Non-Dual State I experience matches up with what is said about Brahman and Turiya (said to be same in Advaita Vedanta).

  • Underlying reality – It is the constant reality present through waking, dream, and deep sleep. 10/10 NDS
  • Waking is not turiya – Ordinary outer-world awareness is not it. 10/10 NDS
  • Dreaming is not turiya – Inner mental imagery and dream experience are not it. 10/10 NDS
  • Deep sleep is not turiya – Blankness or absence of mental content is not it. 10/10 NDS
  • Not a blend – It is not a combination of waking, dreaming, and sleep. 10/10 NDS
  • Not ordinary cognition – It is not subject-object knowing in the usual sense. 10/10 NDS
  • Not unconsciousness – It is not coma, blackout, or nonexistence. 10/10 NDS
  • Not inner visions – Lights, images, voices, symbols, and subtle experiences are still objects, so not turiya. This is an Advaitic inference from verse 7’s negations. 10/10 NDS
  • Not a trance – It is not just a special meditative absorption that comes and goes. 10/10 NDS
  • Not mystical fog – It is not a vague “mass of consciousness” or hazy mind-state. 10/10 NDS
  • Unseen – It cannot be perceived as an object. 10/10 NDS
  • Ungraspable – Mind and senses cannot grab hold of it as a thing. 10/10 NDS
  • Beyond transaction – It is outside ordinary mental and worldly dealings. 10/10 NDS
  • Without characteristics – It has no defining object-like features or marks. 10/10 NDS
  • Unthinkable – Concepts cannot fully capture it. 10/10 NDS
  • Indescribable – Language can point to it but not box it in. 10/10 NDS
  • One Self – It is tied to the realization of the one Self, not many ultimately separate selves. 10/10 NDS
  • Atman – Identification with the Self. [Unsure]
  • Brahman link – In Advaita, this Self is understood as non-different from Brahman.
  • Nondual – It is fundamentally “not two.” 10/10 NDS
  • Peaceful – The text describes it as peace, not conflict or fragmentation. 10/10 NDS
  • Auspicious – It is described as whole, pure, and fundamentally sound. 10/10 NDS
  • Cessation of phenomena – It marks the end of mistaken dualistic appearance as absolute reality. This is the standard Advaitic reading. 10/10 NDS
  • Always present – It is not newly produced by practice, but recognized. This is an Advaitic inference from its role as the ground of all states. 10/10 NDS
  • Not created by meditation – Meditation may remove confusion, but does not manufacture turiya. 10/10 NDS
  • Not a peak experience – Any experience that starts and stops is still not the final point. 10/10 NDS
  • Not emotion-based – Bliss, calm, fearlessness, or spaciousness may accompany practice, but are not themselves turiya. 10/10 NDS
  • Not dependent on body posture – Sitting, walking, lying down, or standing do not define it. This follows from its being the Self rather than a posture-bound condition. 10/10 NDS
  • Not dependent on silence – Noise or quiet does not alter what it is. 10/10 NDS
  • Not an object of memory – If you remember “an experience,” that memory is still a mental object. 10/10 NDS No memory in the state, but after the experience memory is able to recall vaguely what the experience is.

Note

When comparing the two different ideas, I’m not very close at all to the classic Buddhist enlightenment experience and much more aligned with the Advaita Vedanta’s Turiya awareness.

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